Category: Jews


Responses to ‘The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy’

Herewith are my responses to a series of debates put forward by Dispensationalist Ron Rhodes in his book, ‘The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy.’ I trust that my posts will help toward establishing God’s truth and dismantling the wayward doctrine of Dispensationalism.


Dominoes Falling (1)

Debate 1

Should Prophecy Be Interpreted Literally or Allegorically?

Bible Prophecy: Literal or Allegorical

Toppling Dispensationalism


Dominoes Falling (2)

Debate 2

Are Israel and the Church Distinct in Bible Prophecy?

Israel is Saved or Judged, not Replaced or Distinct


Dominoes Falling (3)

Debate 3

What Can We Know About the Signs of the Times?

Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment?

Israel

Middle East, European Union, Globalism?

Is America in Bible Prophecy?

Israel regathered from Many Nations

Russians and Muslims to Invade Israel on Horseback?


Dominoes Falling (4)

Debate 4

Which View of the Rapture Is Correct?

When Will The Rapture Occur?


Dominoes Falling (5)

Debate 5

How Are We to Understand the Book of Revelation?

Taking Issue with Futurism

Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Book of Revelation

Babylon, the 144000 and The Two Witnesses


Dominoes Falling (6)

Debate 6

How Are We to Understand the Antichrist?

The Antichrist – Conundrum and Distraction

Who is the Antichrist?

Who Restrains Him? What Nation is He from? What is the Mark of the Beast?

Timing of the Antichrist


Dominoes Falling (7)

Debate 7

Which View of the Millennium Is Correct?

The Millennium


Dominoes Falling (8)

Debate 8

Is It Okay to Set Dates on Prophetic Events?

Prophetic Events and Their Timing


Other posts referenced:

Numerology in Revelation

Jewish Salvation

Restoring the Kingdom to Israel – The Christian Researcher

Rob Morley

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Dominoes Falling (8)

Debate 8

Responding to Ron Rhodes’ The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy

Debate 8: Ron Rhodes asks, ‘Is It Okay to Set Dates on Prophetic Events?’

Dispensationalist, Ron Rhodes looks at both the case for ‘Yes, Set Dates’ and ‘No, Don’t Set Dates’. In response, I discuss interpreting the timing and dates of key prophecies in the Bible.

Timing of Prophetic Events

Firstly, ‘Is It Okay to Set Dates on Prophetic Events?’ is unfortunately a poorly constructed question, because we don’t set dates on prophetic events, God does. Secondly, it is evident that, when it comes to the prophetic events foretold in the Scriptures, details concerning their timing are not always given. For example, with regard to the Second Coming, Jesus made it clear that no one knew that date except the Father. On the other hand, there are many prophecies that were made by the prophets and Jesus Himself that include timing with their predictions.

Problems

Problems arise when timing has not been indicated and folk still try to determine it. In this regard, many have made fools of themselves by predicting dates for Christ’s return. Furthermore, problems occur when assumptions about the timing in other texts affect the texts at hand. In this regard, certain postmillennialists have tried to indicate the start of a literal 1000 year millennium. However, by having knowledge of the start of a literal millennium would mean that one could determine the timing of Christ’s return, which He said no one knows. So, not only do they waste their time with a literal understanding of the millennium, their view also clearly disproves itself.

In this regard, though Premillennialists (including Dispensationalists) have their own versions of a literal Millennium, they escape this problem because they believe that the second coming occurs before the Millennium. For more on this you can read my post, The Millennium.

Next, where timing has been indicated in the Scriptures, often incorrect assumptions and expectations that arise from false doctrine cause many to ascribe wrong or false eras to events in certain texts. This is a common mistake Dispensationalists make with several scriptures. For example, their misinterpretation of the timing of the events in Daniel’s prophecy concerning the 70th Week is the cause of, or results in, their false view of the timing of events in other Scriptures. I say more on this topic earlier in the series, see Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Book of Revelation – Interpreting Revelation Part 2.

As a result of their misinterpretation of the timing of the texts, they separate what God has joined in Christ, that is to say, the simultaneous salvation of both Jews and Gentiles into His Church. As a result, they sever the Scriptures and falsely align some to a supposed post rapture Jewish period beyond the Church era. Incidentally, another text that has its timing incorrectly assumed by Dispensationalists is Romans 11:25-27, which concerns Jewish Salvation.

Timing vs. Dating

Also of note is that often only general timing is given rather than exact dates. This is done by correlating certain persons and or events with other persons and or events. For example, the exact date of Jesus’ ministry wasn’t predicted in the Old Testament. Nevertheless, it is evident from the Scriptures that His ministry correlates with and follows John the Baptist’s. In this way the timing acts as one of the many proofs that Jesus is the Messiah.

Significant Prophetic Events

Here are examples of prophecies from Scripture with and without time frames:

  1. 70 Years Captivity

Jeremiah prophesied that Judah would be in captivity in Babylon for 70 years:

‘And this whole land will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon for seventy years’ (Jer 25:11).

Clearly Daniel understood the timing in Jeremiah’s prophecy before it was fulfilled:

‘In the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the sacred books, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years’ (Dan 9:2).

  1. Seventy Weeks

Daniel was given a detailed time frame concerning the times that Israel would go through after captivity until the destruction of the temple.

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator” (Dan 9:24-27).

Daniel was given other prophecies with details that fit within the seventy weeks. For example, specifics are prophesied concerning the ongoing conflict between the Seleucid and the Ptolemy kingdoms referred to by Daniel as the ‘the king of the north’ and ‘the king of the south’.

  1. Three Days And Three Nights In The Heart Of The Earth

Jesus clearly gave a time frame concerning His death and resurrection. Consider the following verses:

“Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19).

“For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Matt. 12:40).

‘From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life” (Matt. 16:21).

  1. Destruction of the Temple

Jesus told His disciples that the temple would be destroyed. This prompted His disciples to ask, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Bear in mind that the discussion was, initially, in relation to one event, namely the destruction of the temple. As such, it is not clear whether the disciples were referring to Jesus’ ‘coming’ with reference to Him destroying the temple or to His Second Coming, or whether they had conflated these. Similarly, ‘the end of the age’ could be with reference to the end of the Temple Age or the end of the Church Age and of the world at Christ’s Second Coming.

Nevertheless, Jesus gives clarity by answering the questions asked by the disciples in connection with the end of both ages. He separates what the disciples may have conflated, i.e. the end of the Temple Age and Christ’s return at the end of the world.

Here is how He answers the questions with regard to the temple:

Q: “When will this happen?” i.e. when will the temple be destroyed?

A: “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”

Q: “…what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” i.e. what sign will you give that you are coming to destroy the temple?

A: The sign he gives is “‘So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains …’ (Matt 24:15-16)

Bear in mind that Jesus also spoke of His imminent “coming on the clouds,” which clearly had to do with Him bringing judgment upon Israel. He said, “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven” (Matt 26:64).

  1. Christ’s Return and the End of the World

Though Jesus new in which generation the temple would be destroyed, He was not yet privy to the timing of His return at the very end. He avoids combining the end of the Temple Age with His return at the end of the world by answering the latter in this way:

Q: “When will this happen?” i.e. when will Jesus return to judge the world?

A: “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left”(Matt. 24:36).

Having emptied Himself of His Divine ability and having not yet ascended, Jesus was at this point uninformed concerning the timing of His Second Coming.

Q: “…what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” i.e. what sign will indicate that Jesus is going to return?

A: Jesus does not give a ‘sign’ for this event. Instead He answered them saying, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains” (Matt 23:4-8).

Having said, “concerning that day and hour no one knows”, Jesus said, “Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect” (Matt 24:36-44). In this case Jesus’ coming has to do with Him returning to judge the believers’ works, as their sins have already been judged at the cross, and unbelievers for their sin.

Furthermore, the idea that Jesus is referring to two distinct periods, i.e. the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the world, is evidenced by Jesus indicating that their generation would experience the temple being destroyed and by Him also speaking of prolonged troubles as “the beginning of the birth pains.”

  1. Restoring the Kingdom to Israel

“Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority…” (Acts 1:6-7).

Concerning the timing of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, Jesus said,  “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.” Jesus willingly told them about the timing of the destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple as it was already revealed in Daniel, but said nothing concerning the timing of restoring the kingdom to Israel and His Second Coming, because God had said nothing about these in Scripture.

The restoration of the kingdom to Israel had to do with the giving of the Holy Spirit to believing Israelites, which is Christ’s Church, initially comprising only believing Jews. In this way alone, Israel is restored to her role of being God’s kingdom of priests (see Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:5,9; Rev 1:6,10). Gentiles were only later engrafted as part of God’s restored Israel.

Paul said, not all Israel is Israel, therefore do not confuse God’s restoration of the kingdom to Israel, i.e. the Holy Spirit given to the Messiah’s Church, with Him providentially allowing for a modern state of Israel to exist. For more on this, may I recommend a PDF article that I discovered on the internet, Restoring the Kingdom to Israel – The Christian Researcher.

  1. Things That Were Soon To Take Place

‘The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place’ (Rev 1:1). The phrase ‘what must shortly (or soon) take place’ goes hand in hand with the phrase “for the time is near (at hand)” (Rev 1:3). These verses establish the very imminent nature of what was prophesied. For more on this please see my post Taking Issue with Futurism – Interpreting Revelation Part 1.

Conclusion

The main thing we need to know concerning timing is that we are to be about God’s business of reconciliation until Christ’s return, and that each day is a day closer to that incredible day. Until then, He has promised to never leave us nor forsake us. Hallelujah!

Finally, I would like to close with a link to my post Toppling Dispensationalism. In it I warn of the outcomes of this false doctrine that is taught and believed by thousands of my brothers and sisters in Christ. May God keep our eyes on Jesus as we proclaim His salvation for all in this the only ‘dispensation’ before His return and the final judgment.

Rob Morley

Responses To Ron Rhodes’ ‘The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy’:

  1. Bible Prophecy: Literal or Allegorical
  2. Toppling Dispensationalism
  3. Israel is Saved or Judged, not Replaced or Distinct
  4. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? – PART 1
  5. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 2 – Israel
  6. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 3 – Middle East, European Union, Globalism?
  7. The Signs of the Times – Is America in Bible Prophecy?
  8. The Signs of the Times – Can We Know When the Ezekiel Invasion Will Occur? PART 1 – Israel regathered from Many Nations
  9. The Signs of the Times – Can We Know When the Ezekiel Invasion Will Occur? PART 2 – Russians and Muslims to Invade Israel on Horseback?
  10. When Will The Rapture Occur?
  11. Taking Issue with Futurism – Interpreting Revelation Part 1
  12. Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Book of Revelation – Interpreting Revelation Part 2
  13. Babylon, the 144000 and The Two Witnesses – Interpreting Revelation – Part 3
  14. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 1
  15. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 2
  16. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 3
  17. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 4
  18. The Millennium
  19. Prophetic Events and Their Timing
Dominoes Falling (5)

Dispensationalism Goes Down

Responding to Ron Rhodes’ The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy

Debate 5: How Are We to Understand the Book of Revelation?

Ron Rhodes asks, ‘How Does Daniel’s Seventieth Week Relate to the Book of Revelation?’

The 70th Week in Context

24Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.25Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27And he shall confirm a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator” (Daniel 9:24-27).

Introduction

Dispensationalists like Rhodes assign the 70th week, that is a 7 year period that is prophesied in the book of Daniel, to a time in Israel’s’ future that they interpret will occur only after the Church has left the earth. They, therefore, place the 70th week within the multiple chapters of Revelation that they have likewise allocated to such a period.

In my previous post, Taking Issue with Futurism – Interpreting Revelation Part 1, I contend that Futurists have wrongly aligned Revelation to a future beyond the Church age, when, in fact, it has everything to do with the Church. Now, in this post I will show that though the 70th week was a prophecy specifically given to Israel concerning a 7 year period in their future, it was realized when Jesus, their Messiah, died, rose and ascended in the middle of the week.

By the end of the article it will be clear that Daniel’s 70th week is about the simultaneous end of God’s Covenant with His people and the inauguration of a New Covenant with them in Christ, bringing about the Church age. Consequently, it will be clear that like Revelation, it too has nothing to do with some distant future for Israel that Futurists will have you believe.

The Intention of the 70 Weeks

Firstly, the 70th week forms part of a prophecy about 70 weeks and the intention of the entire 70 weeks is stated up front in verse 24. Consequently, because the 70th week is part of the 70 weeks, its purpose is included too. Consider:

“70 weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.”

  • “70 weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city”

It’s about Daniel’s people, the Jews and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem.

  • “to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin and to atone for iniquity”

Jesus finished the transgression by taking all mankind’s sin – ‘He himself bore our sins in his body on the cross’ (1 Pet 2:24). In so doing Jesus satisfied the Law’s requirement for their transgression by baring their sins and iniquities. When dying Jesus said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). ‘He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world’ (1 John 2:2).

  • “to bring in everlasting righteousness”

Consider ‘For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God’ (2 Cor 5:21) and ‘For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more’ (Heb 8:12).

  • “to seal both vision and prophet”

to completely satisfy what was prophesied through Daniel’s vision.

  • “and to anoint a most holy place”

The anointing of the Spirit is within believers, God’s new Holy Place. Consider, ‘But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and … his anointing teaches you about everything’ (1 John 2:27).

It’s obvious that the purpose of the 70 weeks was entirely satisfied through Jesus Christ’s ministry through the cross on behalf of His people. Therefore, the 70th week, which is part of the 70 weeks, has to do with His ministry.

The Structure of the 70 Weeks

The 70 weeks are divided into 3 series of weeks as follows: 7 weeks followed by 62 weeks followed by 1 week.

A judgment principle of a year for every day as in Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 was used. In this way 70 weeks = 70 x 7days = 490 years.

Each series of weeks has particular related activities:

  • 7 weeks = 7 x 7 = 49 years: “From the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.”
  • 62 weeks = 62 x 7 = 434 years: “Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.”
  • 1 week = 1 x 7 = 7 years: “And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall confirm a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

The plain understanding has a single unit of 70 weeks divided into 3 parts. Consider:

7 weeks (49 years) – refers to a period of 49 years between getting a word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem to an anointed one (no doubt to allow or lead them in that endeavor).

62 weeks (434 years) – refers to a 434 year period of being established as a city, yet “in a troubled time”.

7 weeks (7 years) – refers to a 7 year period “after the sixty-two weeks”

  • in which “an anointed one” is “cut off”,
  • over which He confirms “a strong covenant”
  • and in the middle of which He and puts “an end to sacrifice and offering.”

Inserting any time within the 70 weeks makes the plain understanding of 70 weeks redundant (unless of course the text speaks of such an insertion, which it plainly doesn’t). But, that’s precisely what Dispensationalists would have you believe. They maintain that after the 69th week God suspended completing the 70 week program concerning Israel, delaying the 70th week. However, the text clearly states that “after the sixty-two weeks (which is the 69th week), an anointed one shall be cut off”. Clearly, “after” the 69th week is the 70th week.

The delay, Dispensationalists say, is an interlude in God’s working with Israel, now being filled with almost two thousand years of Church history. However, there is clearly no interval mentioned anywhere in the text concerning the 70 weeks. It’s therefore especially ludicrous to believe that the decreed 490 year period has an inserted 2000 year period.

They believe that God has suspended His governing of Israel as a nation because of their national rejection of Christ. While this is true, it is not according to their construct of the 70 weeks. Furthermore, they maintain that this suspension is temporary and that God will once again restore His direct governance of Israel. This is where the views depart once again, because the 70 weeks makes no mention of this.

From Nation to Spiritual Nation

Instead, the 70 weeks leads to a New Covenant for Daniel’s people (and whosoever believes) that is no longer is about God’s governance of a natural nation in their land, but concerns God the governing of a spiritual nation regardless of where they are. Jesus, who confirmed the covenant, said, “…the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father… But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:21-24).

This bizarre insertion of a so-called separate Church age not only makes a mockery of interpreting the intention and structure of the 70 weeks, it’s clearly a slap in the face of the Messiah’s purpose for His people. Furthermore, it discards the fact that a huge remnant of Israel believed at the time of the apostles and that many have continued to come to faith ever since. (For more see The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 2 – Israel).

The 70th Week

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.”

  • “after the 62 weeks” implies it’s in the 70th week.
  • “anointed one” – Messiah (Hebrew) and Christ (Greek) means anointed one.
  • “cut off” – Consider this prophecy concerning Jesus: ‘For he was cut off out of the land of the living’ (Isaiah 53:8).
  • “shall have nothing” – He was rejected, even stripped of his clothes.

27And he shall confirm a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.

  • “he shall confirm a strong covenant” – Jesus “is the mediator of a better covenant” (Heb 8:6).
  • “for one week” –
  • “for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering” – 31/2 years into His ministry Jesus ‘entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption’ (Heb 9:12) and putting an end to the need for sacrifice and offering.

Dispensationalists believe that the making of ‘a strong covenant’ and the putting of ‘an end to sacrifice and offering’ in Daniel 9:27 refers to a future Antichrist instead of to Christ. However, didn’t the Messiah institute a ‘better covenant’ and end the need for sacrifice and offering by dying ‘once for all’? Sadly, their interpretation of the 70 week period has no mention of the Messiah’s work on the cross. Surely, the single most significant event in Israel’s history would have been included in the 70 weeks!

From Old to New

In the final week of the 70 weeks God, through the Messiah, ends the Old Covenant and at the same time establishes a ‘better covenant with better promises.’ However, many rejected Him and, as a result, Israel for the most part missed receiving the kingdom of God. This was preempted by Jesus when He said to those who were rejecting Him, “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.”

Israel as a nation failed to produce fruit, rejected their Messiah and were cut off, however, it is not as though they were forsaken. A remnant of Jewish believers repented and became part of His new people, His Church that produces fruit. Also, any who had been cut off could be grafted in again if they repented. Only now it wasn’t to the old physical promises that relate to this world, but to better spiritual promises and promises of a New Heaven and New Earth.

There was only ever a remnant of faith in Israel. As Paul says, not all Israel is Israel. And, even the wholesale national rejection of their Messiah did not stop God’s purposes, for a remnant of Israel has continued to believe and the promises and covenants remain available to those who might still repent.

God’s working with Israel was not suspended temporarily after 69 weeks for their rejection of the Messiah as Dispensationalists contend. Instead, they have been invited into the New Covenant that was instituted by their Messiah in the 70th week. The fact that only a remnant have believed is as it’s always been. As Paul explained, a ‘partial hardening has come upon Israel’.

Desolation Beyond the 70 weeks

The description of the 70th week completes the full description of an uninterrupted 490 year period over 3 phases. Throughout the text there is no indication of any time period to be inserted within the 70 weeks (490 years) so as to delay any part of it. However, while that deals with Futurist claims for an interlude, there is an interchange of text in the final 3 verses describing the 70th week that includes information of desolation beyond the 70th week.

A description of the Messiah being cut off in the final 70th week and of the covenant He will make is described in interchange with a final desolation of the Temple. No doubt this is because the outcome of Messiah’s cutting off and strong covenant had a direct effect on the necessity of the Temple.

This, however, is not the same as inserting a time period within the actual 70 weeks, but is simply a reference to a time period outside of the 70 weeks that is being referred to because of its connection to the 70 weeks.

Here’s The Interchange:

A: And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.

B: And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

A: And he shall confirm a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.

B: And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator”

The outcome of the 70 weeks is that Christ ended the Old Covenant and instituted the New. In relation to that the Temple’s desolation was to occur, however, this would be outside of the completed and uninterrupted 70 weeks (490 years). In the middle of the final 70th week Jesus predicted it too, warning His disciples and citing Daniel saying, “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains (Matt 24:15-16).

Futurist’s Squeeze and Sever

Rather than seeing the Church as God’s intended extension and outcome of Israel’s promises, Dispensationalists keep Israel and the Church distinct. This, along with a completely different understanding of the characters and happenings in the 70th week, requires Dispensationalists to squeeze 2000 years of Church history between the 69th and 70th weeks.

As I have outlined previously, Dispensationalists do the same when it comes to the description of the fourth beast. Between the beast and its horns they maintain that there is a great separation of time. Yet, by doing this they completely sever the intended unity of what is pictured and the immediacy of the timing that was meant. (See The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 3 – Middle East, European Union, Globalism?).

The severing off of the 70th week from the 70 weeks, and of the horns from the beast, along with the squeezing in of the Church age, so as to maintain a future outcome for Israel, is extreme eisegesis, laughable and sad. Especially sad is that Bible seminaries and colleges have doctors in theology who actually teach this. Let alone the million dollar industry of selling books on this subject!

This idea of a delayed period of 1 week is further fueled by misunderstandings and manipulations of other texts. For example, futurists have a false understanding of Romans 11, presuming that the text implies that the Jews have a future after the time of the Gentiles. For more on that you can read Jewish Salvation.

In Conclusion

By disconnecting the 70th week from the first 69 weeks, Dispensationalists throw any reasonable interpretation of the intention and structure of the 70 weeks under the bus. This is clearly a big delusion and a sham of an interpretation, because the plain understanding is that the three series of weeks follow immediately after one another. Any idea that the decreed 70 weeks is disconnected at any point is simply abusive interpretation of the intended unity of the 70 weeks.

As for Revelation, it has to do with the Church’s existence in the knowledge of Jesus Christ at her side as she faces various troubles in this world. Daniel’s 70th week, on the other hand, has to do with the Old Covenant being satisfied and the Church’s beginnings through Israel’s Messiah, Jesus, in a New Covenant. So, Revelation and the 70th week are not directly related to each other.

More importantly, in the light of this debate, Revelation and the 70th week have nothing to do with Israel’s future as a nation governed by God. Sadly, Futurists miss the intention of the 70 weeks for the Jewish people, and, in so doing, fail to see that the Messiah’s Church is Israel’s destiny.

Rob Morley

Responses To Ron Rhodes’ ‘The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy’:

  1. Bible Prophecy: Literal or Allegorical
  2. Toppling Dispensationalism
  3. Israel is Saved or Judged, not Replaced or Distinct
  4. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? – PART 1
  5. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 2 – Israel
  6. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 3 – Middle East, European Union, Globalism?
  7. The Signs of the Times – Is America in Bible Prophecy?
  8. The Signs of the Times – Can We Know When the Ezekiel Invasion Will Occur? PART 1 – Israel regathered from Many Nations
  9. The Signs of the Times – Can We Know When the Ezekiel Invasion Will Occur? PART 2 – Russians and Muslims to Invade Israel on Horseback?
  10. When Will The Rapture Occur?
  11. Taking Issue with Futurism – Interpreting Revelation Part 1
  12. Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Book of Revelation – Interpreting Revelation Part 2
  13. Babylon, the 144000 and The Two Witnesses – Interpreting Revelation – Part 3
  14. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 1
  15. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 2
  16. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 3
  17. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 4
  18. The Millennium
  19. Prophetic Events and Their Timing
Dominoes Falling (4)

Debate 4 – Tumbling

A Response to Ron Rhodes’ The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy

DEBATE 4: Which View of the Rapture Is Correct?

The Rapture

Firstly, when it comes to the Rapture, though Rhodes considers a case for Pretribulationism, Midtribulationism, Posttribulationism, the Pre-wrath view and the Partial Rapture view, these don’t reflect of what many believe. He apparently only sees those that somehow relate to his futuristic concepts as relevant to the debate. As a result, he has failed to include the most fundamentally basic and Biblically obvious view, which is simply that when Jesus returns He will rapture the believers from the earth immediately before destroying it with fire and beginning His final judgment.

For example, Wiki – Rapture says: ‘Many Christians do not subscribe to rapture-oriented theological views… but do believe in the phenomenon—primarily in the sense of the elects’ gathering with Christ in Heaven after his Second Coming. These denominations do not believe that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.’

That brings me to my second issue that I have with Rhodes’ partiality. Each of the views that he has put forward assumes that there is a 7 year period called “The Great Tribulation” that occurs around the time of the Rapture. However, this is simply futurist eisegesis imposed on Daniel 9:27 and on certain texts where the term “great tribulation” is used in the Bible. By connecting the notion of a 7 year Great Tribulation to the Rapture, futurists have complicated what is quite simple and have created what is actually an unnecessary in-house debate. However, by removing the false interpretations around the texts that refer to “great tribulation” we can quickly dismantle this.

Tribulation, The Tribulation, Great Tribulation and The Great Tribulation

As we all know, as in all literature, terms in the Bible are interpreted in context. For example, though the term ‘lion’ is used in connection with the Devil, it is also used in reference to Jesus. Therefore, context informs our interpretation so that the ‘lion of the tribe of Judah’ is not understood to be the Devil, and ‘the Devil… prowling like a roaring lion’ is not likening him to Jesus.

Similarly, the term ‘tribulation,’ whether used simply as ‘tribulation,’ ‘the tribulation,’ ‘great tribulation,’ or ‘the great tribulation,’ needs to be considered in context. In understanding their contexts we will find that they are not necessarily always synonymous periods of tribulation. Consider the following:

The Church Age – An Age of Tribulation

In John 16:33 Jesus says to his disciples, “In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” Though this was specifically spoken to his immediate disciples, we understand these words to be applicable to all believers throughout the Church Age.

In fact, throughout the Bible and the book of Revelation in particular we see the Church experiencing tribulation in the world in which it finds itself. This is no doubt the main reason for God giving The Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Church as an encouragement to her, revealing Jesus Christ’s promises, proximity and power in relation to all her troubles.

Revelation 7:14 specifically refers to a “great tribulation” or “the great tribulation” where it reads; “These are the ones coming out of great tribulation/the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” This too refers the tribulation over the broader Church Age rather than their specific period of trouble, because the words “They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” are true of all believers and not a specific few.

With this in mind, the term “great” in “the great tribulation” in this passage refers to the extent of the tribulation. It is the sum magnitude of tribulation experienced during the Church Age in a world called Babylon that is hostile to her, whose citizens are under Satan’s power, and where the Beast reincarnates itself, along with the False Prophet.

The Early Church – Tribulation

In Revelation 1:9, John describes the time that he was already living in as ‘the tribulation.’ He was no doubt referring to the persecution that he and the Church were under, however, he certainly would have understood that to be part of the general “tribulation” that Jesus had promised in John 16:33. Regardless of whether John was referring to their current troubles and/or to the general tribulation that Jesus had promised, the occasion warranted the use of the term.

The Destruction of Jerusalem – A Time of Tribulation

The term “great tribulation” is used in Matthew 24:21 where Jesus says, “For then shall be great tribulation”. The context is found in the preceding verses. He says, “…let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.”

Clearly, “on housetop” describes an ancient home and custom, not a modern scene that one would expect in a futurist tribulation. Also, to “flee to the mountains” is hardly a strategy that will help anyone in the future. Furthermore, being in a “field” and wearing a “cloak” is a common description for 1st century Judea, not modern Israel. And, why would “winter” be a problem in the modern world?

From the description, this prophecy was to be fulfilled in that era and not some end-time futurist one. Jesus is describing the looming scenario and associated possibilities around the destruction of the temple. Corroborating this are Jesus’ words in relation to this passage: “Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

It had to do with the Jewish War of 66-70 AD and Jesus’ prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem. More than a million Jews were killed and the temple, which their lives revolved around, was destroyed. It was gruesome, with in-fighting, starvation, cannibalism, slaughter and destruction. The nature of it was so horrendous that Jesus said of it, “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Christ’s Threat – A Threat of Tribulation

Finally, the term “great tribulation” in Revelation 2:22 is used in an admonition by Jesus to members of the church of Thyatira. He says, “Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works”. This was a warning of impending troubles, to people in a church who were contemporary to the apostle John, if they would not repent.

Bizarre Outcomes

Clearly this threat of “great tribulation” had nothing to do with the “tribulation” of John 16:33 that describes the troubles in this life that Jesus said the disciples would face as their part in “the great tribulation” of Revelation 7:14. Neither does it concern the Roman period of persecution that John referred to as “the tribulation” in Revelation 1:9. Nor has it anything to do with the “great tribulation” of Matthew 24:21 that describes what the unbelieving Jews in 1st century Judea faced during the Jewish war.

You can only imagine what concoctions people come up when they simply assume that the word “tribulation” implies the same event. Bizarrely, there are some who will try and connect most if not all of the above into one event. I’m not sure that Rhodes has taken it that far, but he does connect at least two of the above tribulations. However, sadder is that he gives neither their proper interpretation to start off with.

Firstly, he sees the “great tribulation” of Matthew 24:21 and “the great tribulation” of Revelation 7:14 as the same period. Secondly, he places this period in an end-time future. He then further distorts this by linking this end-time “great tribulation” period to a prophecy in Daniel 9:27 that speaks of a 7-year period in which an abomination that causes desolation occurs. Instead of seeing this in relation to Jesus prophecies regarding 1st century Jerusalem, he interprets ‘The Great Tribulation’ as a 7 year period in the future when the desolation will occur. It is with this futurist mind that he asks when the rapture is to occur.

Debate Answer

The Rapture will happen at the end of this Church Age at the second coming of Christ when every Jew and Gentile who has ever believed in the Messiah will receive their glorified bodies and be caught up in the air (raptured) with Jesus to forever be with Him. Immediately thereafter the earth and all who are in it will be judged with fire and all will face final judgment.

So, in conclusion, there is no Rapture in relation to a 7-year period called ‘The Great Tribulation’. However, there is one that ends ‘the great tribulation’ that the Church has always existed in and in which the church experiences “tribulation” upon “tribulation”.

Rob Morley

Responses To Ron Rhodes’ ‘The 8 Great Debates of Bible Prophecy’:

  1. Bible Prophecy: Literal or Allegorical
  2. Toppling Dispensationalism
  3. Israel is Saved or Judged, not Replaced or Distinct
  4. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? – PART 1
  5. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 2 – Israel
  6. The Signs of the Times – Do Current Signs Point to Prophetic Fulfillment? PART 3 – Middle East, European Union, Globalism?
  7. The Signs of the Times – Is America in Bible Prophecy?
  8. The Signs of the Times – Can We Know When the Ezekiel Invasion Will Occur? PART 1 – Israel regathered from Many Nations
  9. The Signs of the Times – Can We Know When the Ezekiel Invasion Will Occur? PART 2 – Russians and Muslims to Invade Israel on Horseback?
  10. When Will The Rapture Occur?
  11. Taking Issue with Futurism – Interpreting Revelation Part 1
  12. Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Book of Revelation – Interpreting Revelation Part 2
  13. Babylon, the 144000 and The Two Witnesses – Interpreting Revelation – Part 3
  14. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 1
  15. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 2
  16. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 3
  17. Who is the Antichrist? – Part 4
  18. The Millennium
  19. Prophetic Events and Their Timing

Jewish Salvation

Photo: Alex Bruda

Photo: Alex Bruda

Continued Conjecture and Confusion over the Jews

Conjecture over the timing and process of Jewish salvation has brought about much confusion and sadly false teaching in the church. This has happened to the point that, if some of us really knew what Paul was saying, he would probably be considered by them to be “anti-Semitic”.

In chapters 9-11 of his letter to the Romans, Paul addressed certain questions and speculation over the future of the Jewish people and their salvation in the light of what appeared to be a huge disconnect between Jews in general and their Messiah. He addressed questions like, why were Jews not embracing the gospel? And, had God rejected them?

Unfortunately, Paul’s attempts to do this have sadly also been misconstrued by those who wildly speculate over the process of Jewish salvation or who have been taught the theologies of such speculators. Perhaps Peter’s words are true of some of these people too, where he wrote, “Paul … wrote … some things … that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist … as they do the other Scriptures” (2Peter 3:15-16).

Separate Plan for Israel after the Gentiles is False

A twisting of Paul’s writing on this issue of the future of the Jews in God’s plans is the common misinterpretation that AFTER the “fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” THEN Israel will experience salvation. People read this idea into Romans 11:25-27 when it isn’t there, especially if they have been taught this idea. Yet, a simple reading of the passage will show this to be untrue.

Read it for yourself:-

A PARTIAL HARDENING has come upon Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved, as it is written, ‘The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob’; ‘and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.’”

Note:

A PARTIAL HARDENING” speaks of the NATURE of Israel.

UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in” speaks of the duration of this partial hardening.

“And IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved speaks of the MANNER of the salvation of “all Israel” and NOT THE TIMING of it.

“as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins” speaks of salvation through the promised deliverer and the promised new covenant, i.e. through the gospel of Jesus and the new covenant.

Nothing here speaks of Gentiles coming in “BEFORE Israel will be saved”.  This idea gets accidently read into the passage by readers who expect the passage to be saying this, when it doesn’t.

Explaining the Passage

At this point in this passage, Paul, whose heart is to “somehow…save SOME of them (fellow Israelites),” is addressing the Gentiles in order to give them a sober and accurate understanding of what is happening to the Jews.

He is saying, something like, “Gentiles …In case you get the wrong idea of what is happening through your own evaluation of what you see, let me explain a mystery. A PARTIAL (not complete) hardening has come upon Israel as a people. And, this will be the case UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And, in this way, despite their condition of partial hardening, all Israel will be saved, as it is written, through a Savior who will remove their ungodliness with God’s new covenant!”

Drips and Drabs and Spurts

Essentially, as far as the Jews are concerned, while the Gentiles are coming in, and until the end of that time, they too will be coming in, however, because of a partial hardening, it will be in drips and drabs with occasional spurts.

At the time of Paul’s writing it was more like drips and drabs, while the Gentiles were coming into the kingdom in spurts. This was something that drew attention and caused possible speculation and pride among the Gentiles in the church in Rome, which Paul addressed here.

He addresses any idea that the Jews are LARGELY or COMPLETELY hardened as a people and as a result ABANDONED, by explaining that a PARTIAL hardening has come upon them, hence their lack of receiving of the gospel en masse.

So, just as the fullness of the Gentiles come in with drips and drabs and with occasional spurts, so too, will the fullness of the Jews. And, together they comprise Messiah’s “all Israel,” a Holy Nation and a Kingdom of priests.

A Duty to Tell the Jews about Jesus

Like Paul, we have a gospel to preach to a hard world, including to the Jews who have experienced ONLY a PARTIAL hardening.  And, although, at times, it may appear that the Jews are abandoned by God, this is not the case. They, too, must have their ungodliness banished through the Savior with His new covenant. Quite frankly, reaching Jews with the gospel is not harder than reaching atheists in the West or Japanese in Japan.

The time for Jewish salvation, like for everyone else, is NOW. And, it’s through their Messiah, Jesus, with God’s New Covenant.

Just as a missionary in Japan doesn’t stop sharing the gospel at the rejection of it by countless Japanese, we shouldn’t let the rejection of the gospel by many Jews keep us from sharing it with them.

Rob Morley

Photo by Alex Bruda

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